Bespik:Lalgorit Geredik

Vöds, dö kels mutobs spikön:

>Gudikünam - "Optimisation" ("act of besting"). >Sukagorim (suk-a-gorim) - "Search algorithm". >Tuvedot - "A solution". At binon vöd, kela lönedi dotob... >Dils flitömas - "Aeroplane parts" >Boeds leäktronik - "Electronic circuits/circuit boards" >Kontrol mäikamenas - "Robot control" >Numivotafomam - "Transformation into numbers". Linglänapüke, sagoy "Representation", ab binos votafomam ini nums. >Kromasom - "Chromosome", vöd nulik. Gudik-li? >Sürfat follienik - vilob sagön "Rectangular surface". >Sukaspad - "Search space" >Lönedasekät (löned-a-sekät) - "Fitness function". Sagon oye lönedi tuvedota. >Beopenets - "(good) points/marks".

Num kion vödas! Nolob, das osagol mödi dö vöds ä yeged at :-) Robert 20:30, 6 novul 2007 (UTC)

Küpedot balid: gorim tikodükon dö gor-im (bi ya dabinon poyümot: -im). Ba "gorit" binonöv gudikum? --Smeira 10:34, 7 novul 2007 (UTC)

Vöd "gor" dabinon-li? If no, cedob, das "gorim" binon lönedik. Vöds at finons ko -im, e no dabinos säkäd: lölim, mivim, ravanim, slipatim, sorbabim. Robert 19:33, 7 novul 2007 (UTC)

No, vöd: „gor“ no dabinon; e vöds fa ol pemäniotöls dabinons (ab vöd: „lölim“ binon vöd: „löl“ + el „-im“!...). In püks valik dabinons vöds soik: jiniko pedefomöls, ab no veräto. Veratos, das püks kanons lifön to dabin vödas somik, ab... ab... no binosöv-li gudikün ad vitön osi, if kanobs?... Ah well, säkobsös Volapükanis votik in Volapükagrup. If pluamanum baicedon, das el „gorim“ binon lönedik, id ob obaicedob! (Vilol-li säkön tefü vöd at in Volapükagrup, u sötob-li säkön ob it?) --Smeira 21:40, 8 novul 2007 (UTC)

Yeged ola binon vemo nitedik! Vilob reidön oni gudiko, nog ün vig at; sosus olabob mobis openob onis isio. Danö! pro kevob ola!

Nu, demü vöds votik... (Cedü ob sötobs säkön Volapükanes votik in Volapükagrup ela Yahoo, kisi cedons tefü ons, no-li?)

• „gudikünam“: ba gudikum: „gudükünam“? (El „optimisation“ binon suemod loveädik (transitive), no-li? „To optmise something“? Tefü fom vöda at: el de Jong älabom vödi: „gudükumön“ = 'correct, improve', gud-ük-um-ön, kö äbinons el „-ük“ ed el „-um“; sekü atos, kredob, das leigo el „-ük“ ed el „-ün“ kanons pagebön kobo.
• „sukagorim“: gudik, if el „gorim“ pazepon.
• „tuvedot“: id obe vöd at no pliton vemo. Ab binon in vödabuk ela de Jong... „tuved: das Erraten, Enträtselung (= guessing, figuring out, solving (a puzzle)); tuvedot: Auflösung (= solution (of a puzzle)); tuvedön: erraten, enträtseln (= to guess correctly, to figure out, to decipher, to solve (a puzzle)).“
• „dils flitömas“ = 'parts of airplanes': OK, cedü ob.
• „boeds leäktronik“ = 'circuit boards': I think "boed" is more like a log, something wooden. Why not "platot leäktronik" (platot = something flat)?
• „kontrol mäikamenas“: Cedü ob, vöd: „kontrolön“ sinifon no 'to control', ab 'to verify, to check (if sth is as it should be)', bi tradutod onik binon vöd Deutänik: „kontrollieren“ labü sinif at. Mobob: „stir(am)“ pla el „kontrol“... Tefü „mäikamen“: vöd at no pliton obi; igo no suemob oni gudiko (mäik-a-men? kis binon-li „mäik“?). Neodol-li vödi: „robot“, u kanol-li gebön i vödi: „stir(am) itjäfidik“ („itjäfidik“ = automatic)? If neodol vödi: „robot“, ba: „cinamen“? Ed i: „stir(am) cinamenik“ u „stir(am) fa cinamen(s)“?
• „Numivotafomam“: hm, case ambiguity here. „Num-i“ suggests that "number" is the object of transform: not "transform into numbers", but "transform numbers (into something else)". Mögos, das kanoy gebön: „numovotafomam“. Atos no binon so vemo gudiko, bi „numo“ kanon sinifön: „ini nums, ad nums“, ab i: „me nums, yufü nums“... Ab bi dabinons vöds sümik in püks votik vola, ba kanoy zepön oni. Voto... kisi dunön-li? Ba gebön vödis tel: „votafomam ini nums“ u „votafomam ad nums“?
• „Kromasom“: gudik. (Ab: kikodo „kromasom“-li pla „kromosom“?)
• „rectangle“: in Deutänapük: „Rechteck“; ed el de Jong labom in vödabuk okik: „Rechteck = stedagul“. Ba: "Sürfat stedagulik"?
• „sukaspad“: jinon gudik lü ob.
• „lönedasekät“: ekö! tradutod gudik. Vemo pliton obi.
• „beopenets“: ? no suemob... Ah! Ba ävilol-li penön: "benopenets"? Vöds: „point, mark“ labons sinifis mödik; lio vilol-li gebön onis? In vödabuk ela de Jong: „penet: Notiz, Anmerikung, Aufzeichnung“ (= (written) notes, remarks, quick written comments). Logob, das epenol: „Plü tuvedot binon gudik, plü num be(n)openetas pagivon one“. Ah! vilol gebön eli "points" as "points (score), fitness points". Ekö! säkäd nitedik... El de Jong labom: „Punkt: pün“, nen pläns tefü sinifs votik vöda at. Kanobs balugiko gebön oni: ...benopünas pagivon one (ü ba: ...lönedapünas pagivon one). Ab i tefü vöd at cedob, das sötobs begön cedis Volapükanas votik. Kisi cedol-li? --Smeira 22:54, 8 novul 2007 (UTC)

I'll post a message at the Yahoo Group asking about the brand new words. A majority of 2 should be enough to get them accepted!!

Regarding the ending of "Gorim", I understand your reservations, but given the large number of suffixes in the language, this attitude would prevent a very large number of words from being created. If there were only a handful of suffixes, I'd change it to "Gorit", but there are many, so I think "Gorim" should stay. And as you've said, we can let the other Vp-ans decide.

OK. No problem. Every language has words like these, so there's no big reason to worry. If they accept it, then Ralph will put it in the dictionary and then it becomes official!...

• "Gudükünam". Si, vöd at binon gudikum. Plidon obi, das hiel de Jong ädunom bosi, kel binon vemo sümik.
• "Tuvedot". Fikulik... Otikob dö os.
• "Platot leäktronik". Si, mob gudik.
• "Stir". Si, at bepenon gudikumo etosi, keli vilob sagön.
• "Cinamen". Gudik, ab sümon vödi linglänapükik "Chinamen"! :-)

  ;-))... Atos äkoedon smilön obi levemo! (Ba: „Menacin“?...)

• "Numovotafomam". Sosus älogob krüti ola tefü vöd "numi-", ätikob: "numo-". Klu cedob, das at söton pagebön.
• "KromOsom". Ag! dobiko ätonatob...
• "Stedagul". In vödabuk ela Yahoo Group, vöd at leigon: "a right angle"! Kis binon-li verätik?

  Hmmm... in vödabuk ela de Jong, dabinon te: "Rechteck: stedagul". In vödabuk Deutänapükik oba, "Rechteck = straight angle; rectangle" (ed in vödabuk vüresodik: http://www.dict.cc ... If betikoy atosi, logoy, das follien alik labü stedagul bal muton labön i stedagulis fol; kanon binön te el „rectangle“...). Esukob in vödems ela de Jong, ed etuvob samis te telis:

  (1)...Ston di Rosette, äsä nu binon, labon fomi folliena stedagulik nenomik labü lunot meta bal,... (Hieroglifaston di Rosette in Dältad di Nile; Volapükagased pro Nedänapükans 1939, nüm:1, pads: 2-7).

  (2)...E leyal e yad stedagulik in zänod pefulons susfuliko me pilgrimans... (Lif in Mekka; Volapükagased pro Nedänapükans, 1940, nüm: 6, pads:47-49)

Sams at jiniko jonons, das el „stedagulik“ sinifon noe „right-angle(d)“, abi „rectangular“, no-li? Ba kanol gebön eli „follien stedagulik“, äsä ädunom el de Jong. --Smeira 02:35, 10 novul 2007 (UTC)

• "Be(n)openet". I se vödabuk ela Yahoo Group. "Beno-" muton binön verätik, as esagol. Otikob dö os, do "benopenet" bo povälon.

Robert 15:51, 9 novul 2007 (UTC)

• Ab reidob in vödabuk ela Yahoo Group, das "benopenet" e "mipenet" tefons eli „schoolwork“, i.e. el „penet“ pagebon, bi tefos bosi, keli tidan penon sui vobot julana. Pöton-li vöd at pö disein olik? --Smeira 02:35, 10 novul 2007 (UTC)

Danö pro petuvön setis at fa AdJ. Ogebob eti, keli emobol.

I've asked the Group about (some of) the new words. The best alternative I can think of for "robot" is "okstiracin", but this doesn't look good. I've seen that "robot" and "röbot" can't be coined, but what about "rubot"? (It's a shame that Schleyer didn't have the foresight to predict the emergence of robots and adjust the words "rob" and "röb" accordingly!) [Afterthought: "rubot" actually means "ancient boat", so scrub that suggestion!]

Otikob dö "points/marks"... Robert 11:49, 10 novul 2007 (UTC)

I shall be adding more in a day or two's time. Here are some comments/questions in advance:

• GA people call the candidate solutions "individuals", so I shall be referring to them as "balats" in the article. Is this the best word?
• I see you changed the early 'u' into a 'ü'. I thought the former meant "either/or", and the latter "whether/or" - could you explain why there should be a 'ü' there?

  Let's see: "u" = 'or' alternative, either/or/or both (Binom tidan, u tedan... no sevob fümiko); "ü" = 'or' as in 'another way of saying the same', like 'also known as': binom John ü Johnny. ("John" and "Johnny" are alternative forms of the same word, or are two words that mean the same / refer to the same person). So, if GG and GA mean the same (if you could say 'also known as' instead of 'or'), then "ü" is OK; if they don't, then it isn't. --Smeira 20:22, 14 novul 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for dropping in b*ut it was me who changed that 'u' into 'ü' :(. Sorry for causing some confusion. Malafaya 20:28, 14 novul 2007 (UTC)

• Points: how about "pünäts"?
• How can I say: "Each new population is formed one individual at a time" ?

Spelob, das tuvol atosi nitediku, o Kadäman Sérgio :-) Robert 16:30, 13 novul 2007 (UTC)

Neat-o, ain't it? I should have some cards printed with "Kadäman" on them...

Okay. Thanks nonetheless, Malafaya (and Sérgio). I had the wrong idea about 'ü', and am pleased to know its proper (and nice) meaning.

Robert 21:53, 14 novul 2007 (UTC)

Further comments

OK, I had to stop answering in the middle and could come back only now... To make this easier to read I start a new section. (The meaning of 'ü' vs. 'u' is comparable, by the way, with Latin 'sive' vs. 'seu' -- from which Schleyer took the idea...)

• On "pünäts": (= "points" in a score, a video game, a fitness-measuring algorithm, etc.) hm, looks OK. I think that's the kind of thing Arie de Jong would have done... Any reason to prefer -ät here rather than -äd or -et or -ed?. (Not that any is necessary, judging by the somewhat arbitrary use of these suffixes.).
• Each new population is formed one individual at a time: A good question, I think I'll ask that in the Volapukagrup. If this is about real people, maybe something like "pösodef nulik alik pafomon ai alna me pösod bal"; but "individual" and "population" mean something else here, right? Maybe "Tuvedotem" e "tuvedot" instead of "pösodef" e "pösod"? --Smeira 11:02, 15 novul 2007 (UTC)

I chose -äd for "pünät" because I've seen it described as being the "abstraction" suffix, and these points are an abstract thing. Re the other point, yes, ask the group.Robert 19:12, 15 novul 2007 (UTC)'

OK, will do. Did you mean to choose -ät (pünät) or -äd (pünäd)? Both look OK to me. --Smeira 10:07, 16 novul 2007 (UTC)

Ek kanon-li genemön padi: "Lalgorit Geredik"? Danö!Robert 19:21, 15 novul 2007 (UTC)

I've called crossover "gereditökam" (gene-exchange). The joining -i- shows that genes are the object of the exchange. I'm yet to think of a good term for mutation. Also, an eaxmple in Ralph's dictionary supports my use of "balat bal pos votik"Robert 18:37, 18 novul 2007 (UTC)

Eplaädob vödi "(el) mutation" pro vödi "luvotükam". Robert 14:39, 2008 yulul 19id (UTC)